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ok ok im dum, but i gotta ask, WAS balto part wol or was he a husky, some people tell me in real like hes a jusky and others say in real life hes part wolf.....so what is he?

he was a real huskey. In the movie they made him part wolf but it still went through the story line just a little bit different.

No. He was not.
He was a husky.

No, Balto wasn't part wolf. He was 100% Siberian husky.

Click my siggy

Good responses, guys. And thanks for the nod, Mighty!

Yep...they're all correct. There have been a couple of random people in the past who have called him a "Finnish Lapphund" as well as other types. Even Karelian Bear Dog, if memory serves. Under the impression that his markings and colors were identical to those breeds. And they are...but only in color and the possibility of markings. However, there are Siberian Huskies with that arrangement of black and white. And have been for decades (even back to long before the serum run). But the historical record does not support Balto's owner, Leonhard Seppala, owning or breeding anything other than Siberian Huskies. He did have two other dogs, big mixed breeds, early in his first few years in Alaska (after he emigrated from Norway), but that was long before he got either into dog sledding or breeding. By then, those two bix mixed breed dogs had died.

JerseyCaptain wrote: "But the historical record does not support Balto's owner, Leonhard Seppala, owning or breeding anything other than Siberian Huskies."
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Mary Lee Davis was an author and long time resident of Alaska. She knew Leonhard Seppala and was familiar with his breeding program in Nome from the time it started until the time Seppala left for his nationwide tour in late 1926. One of her first hand observations about Seppala and his Siberian breeding program was - "For a time only, he made the mistake of trying to cross them with various other breeds, but he soon saw the folly of this for, as he himself admits, they're nearly perfect sled dogs already." If you've seen any photos of Billiken, Seppala's leader in the 1927 Poland Spring race, he could be one example of Seppala's endeavours in cross-breeding.

An interesting statement. Perhaps you could provide the references to document said account...as I have never seen it. Nor has there been so much as a single word of that mixing mentioned by Seppala himself anywhere in any other book, newspaper excerpt, or account from other individuals associated with him. And I have seen tons of material.

There are so many apocalyptic and contradictory statements by those who either knew Seppala or claimed to know him, that it is nearly impossible to give creedence to any. And since there is no recorded statement by Seppala himself to that effect (that I have ever seen in print), it begs the question of its authenticity. One of the most obvious would be the in-print resource Seppala: Alaskan Dog Driver, edited by his contemporary friend, fellow dog musher (and breeder), and eventual Siberian Husky breeder Elizabeth Ricker (who also wrote the introduction and initial elements of the book before turning it over to Seppala's direct accounting). Another is Ken Ungermann's book The Race To Nome: Alaska's Heroic Race To Save Lives. He interviewed Seppala and his wife Constance while they were both still alive. And while his book does have some errors in it from research he has done, it is largely on target. And yet, no mention of Seppala attempting to breed his huskies with other types of dogs.

References...bring the references. Otherwise, refutation is premature.




I'll add a few "quick n' dirty" (meaning, in this case, that they were quick pulls from my archives) bits of material I have referenced in the past on this and related subjects:

In this article, by the famed Robert Forto, PhD, which this Siberian Husky website added to theirs, the following quote comes (which talks of later attempts to increase the size of the dogs in the eastern kennels, over which Seppala himself had no control or ownership):

http://teamineka.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/leonhard-seppala

"Eastern mushers became just as enamored of the Siberian Huskies as was Seppala and, with his help, selective breeding programs were started at several kennels. Seppala was looking for a slightly larger dog without diminishing alertness, grace and the lightness of foot had contributed to this natural breed’s success in racing. These new kennels provided this by mixing their bloodlines with his."

There are also some other good references to draw upon regarding the purity of Seppala's breeding program:

http://www.seppalakennels.com/articles/leonhardseppala.htm

http://www.chinooktradingpost.com/seppala_walden.htm

Now, that being said, when we consider that Togo had some Alaskan Malamute blood in him, through his father Suggen, it could be argued that Seppala WAS doing just that...limited attempts to cross breed. Until one takes into account that Suggen was an adult during the early Alaska Sweepstakes races during which he led Seppala's racing team. It is logical to conclude that Seppala purchased or "acquired", as the saying went at the time, Suggen when he was already an adult dog. Further, it is possible that either Suggen was intentionally mated with Dolly (one of the imports Seppala received from Jafet Lindeberg after that intended gift to Roald Amundsen fell through, after Amundsen cancelled his intended trip to the Arctic)...or that it was an unintended breeding. This occasionally does happen in even modern breeders' kennels. However, history also shows that Togo was the only surviving puppy of that litter, apparently. And even though Togo produced his own offspring, the genetic drift would have been resolved in due time. And, even as Davis intimated, Seppala was concerned with the purity of his lines (even if we believe her assertion that he dabbled in mixing for a short time which, once again, there is no concurrent evidence I have ever seen to confirm this fact).

As to Billiken yes, I have seen images of him. Here's one well-known one:

http://www.mainememory.net/bin/Detail?ln=20921

That photo also appears on this page, along with another of him with Seppala at the bottom of the article:

http://www.polandspringseppalas.com/12.html

Now, I will grant you, it is POSSIBLE that Billiken is a mixed breed. It is known that Seppala occasionally acquired other dogs to augment his teams. Does that mean he bred them all? Or that those dogs (dogs like Billiken) were produced in his Little Creek kennels? Not necessarily. Nor does Billiken's appearance obviate the possibility that he was still a Siberian husky. There are many photos of what are said to be all-Siberian teams, which show dogs with remarkable variation in coat pattern and even some length. Was any musher of such teams being dishonest with the photographer when he said that his team was "all Siberians"? Or not? Can that be proven across time? No.

But when all else fails, you go to the direct source material...and what is in print. And newspapers (I have mentioned time and again), just to cover that particular base in case the point comes up, are notoriously unreliable. Quotes from the man himself, Leonhard Seppala, are to be taken over the claims of even those who may have known him. Especially when they appear to be contradictory against each other, and against what he has said (or not said).

The reference for the Mary Lee Davis writing about Leonhard Seppala's breeding program in Alaska is her book, Alaska The Great Bear's Cub (1930). Mrs. Davis wrote at least 10 books that I'm aware of - a couple of them about Alaska topics. And that's what we need to keep in mind here; that Mrs. Davis was only writing about Seppala's breeding program in Alaska, from about 1913 to 1926.

I looked at the website references provided that were supposed to support this subject. None of them are relevant to Seppala's breeding program in Alaska. The next thing to consider is the purpose for any person to write what they do. Is it just a simple matter of presenting the facts, or is there an alterior motive or agenda? In the case of Mrs. Davis, there is no indication whatsoever of her having any other agenda. Her writing about Leonhard Seppala's breeding program in Alaska is in the context of "as told to" and her personal observations and knowledge. She wrote what she did as a matter of fact - not speculation, opinion or anything else. Contrast that with the Elizabeth Ricker book mentioned, Seppala: Alaskan Dog Driver (1930). The SHCA (Sberian Husky Club of America) wrote a review of this book on their website. It says in part "written in 1930 by Seppala's collaborator and recently reprinted, the book is mostly a whitewashed taile (sic) of Seppala's life as an immigrant in Alaska." I agree 100% with that assessment. Beyond that, it is quite apparent from the very beginning of that book (starting in the Foreward section) that Mrs. Ricker, as the author, had two agendas (1) she wanted to put Leonhard Seppala in the best light possible, and (2) to discredit Balto and Gunnar Kaasen. I won't go into all the examples, but one of the most flagrant misrepresentations in that book is in giving credit to Togo for something that rightly belongs to another dog. This is in the poem "Seppala's Drive to Win." As an editor for a 1975 SHCA publication aptly wrote: "Togo's authenticated accomplishments should be enough for any dog; it would seem unnecessarily hypocritical to indict Balto for stealing Togo's accomplishments when so many of Russky's were in turn purloined to deify Togo."

The book Togo's Fireside Reflections, also written by Elizabeth Ricker (1928), is a far better book, and especially when it comes to Togo. This book is very rare and hard to find. And very expensive. I know of one copy for sale at a bookstore in Juneau, Alaska. It is signed by Leonhard Seppala, Elizabeth Ricker and Togo (a pawprint). The price is $2,500. I was fortunate to be able to buy a copy about four years ago for $450.

That Leonhard Seppala may have been silent on a particular subject isn't the bottom line. If I walk by your house and see a furniture truck in your driveway, and I see a couple of guys carrying new furniture into your house, can I accurately say that you just acquired some new furniture, or do I have to wait for you to tell me that? I would direct your attention to a post in the "Balto's sled team?" section of this forum, in which a member asked for info. about Balto's other teammates. Another member replied by quoting you as saying "Only Balto's breed is known for certain...he was a purebred Siberian husky. The others probably were too...but there could easily have been Alaskan huskies and other mixed breeds in them." There's no need to change horses in the middle of the stream. There is a very good, close-up photo of Balto and the remaining dogs on Gunnar Kaasen's tour team taken when Sam Houston owned them. If a couple of those dogs are purebred Siberian Huskies, I'll eat your hat. I would also point out Billiken's ears in the photos you referenced. He is flop-eared. Certainly not in keeping with a purebred Siberian, then or now. Notice the dog to the far right of the top photo on one of the websites you listed - the one with Leonhard Seppala holding Billiken in his right arm, and several other dogs are in the picture. The dog to the viewer's far right might be Matte. This is an example of one of Seppala's "tipped ear" dogs. The base of the ear is erect, but the top part is tipped outward.

As to old newspaper accounts. I strongly disagree with your assessment of them being "notoriously unreliable." While I will agree that there was some degree of bias and opinion in them (just as there is today, and probably more so), the old newspaper accounts are excellent sources of information. Newpapers at that time were by far the major source of news and events. There was no such thing as the Internet or cable TV news back then. Radio was in place at tje time, but if a person wanted to find out what's going on, they bought a newspaper.

Ugh. Even though a fan forum peopled largely by young people is not the place to be debating this ad nauseum, and in such verbose detail...and I am not going to continue to do that here beyond this post...I will, for the sake of answering that last post I will say as much as I will below. And then I am done with this circular debate. For the most part, the members of this particular forum are not going to want to read through exhaustive, lengthy posts by either of us. I suggest you try and keep that in mind.

The bottom line is not whether or not there is information forthcoming from Seppala to confirm the assertion by someone else who just happened to live in Alaska, was the wife of a miner, and allegedly heard him say something. Anyone can say that, and claim it is fact. Anyone can say anything and claim it as fact. That alone does not make it factual.

That Mary Lee Davis wrote about Seppala's breeding program doesn't make her a knowledgeable authority on it...whether she was his contemporary or not. What she said doesn't equate with fact IF there is an absence of other hard evidence...especially verifiable statements or records by the Seppala family, and Leonhard Seppala himself. Or if there were some concrete statements to that effect from Theodore Kingeak, for example. THOSE things would, in my eyes (and the eyes of any competent historical researcher) would be the actual, final arbiters of fact when there is no other concrete evidence. Anything else has to be taken as conjecture and perhaps even apocryphal. Period.




Or let's put it another way: let's assume a person doing his (or her...though, from this point on, I will simply use "he", "him" or "his") regular job, and then having a hobby he engages in...with a passion. This person (a person like Leonhard Seppala) knows many other people in his life -- friends, co-workers, fellow hobbyists. Now let's assume that this person has a co-worker (i.e., like the miner who was married to Mary Lee Davis, who worked in the same field as Seppala, he having worked for Pioneer Gold Mining Company, and then the latter Hammon Consolidated Gold Fields...assuming Davis' husband even worked for Hammon, since it appears the celebrated Davis home is in Fairbanks, and not in Nome. I will admit that I do not know the answer to this question, as I have not read Davis' books, and I know nothing of her miner husband). This coworker probably spends a fair amount of time interacting with this person, unless perhaps they work in an industry that is rather large, and takes individuals, or small crews, to different and widespread locations (as was the case with gold mining -- even more so in Alaska). Now let's assume that co-worker's wife has met this person...perhaps a few times, perhaps more. They might even be considered mutual friends (the person in question, the co-worker, and the co-worker's wife). Perhaps they attended company gatherings and socialized there. Perhaps not. Perhaps they saw each other in town (presuming they lived in the same town). Possibly. And perhaps this person in question even talks proudly of his hobby and maybe even invites the co-worker and his wife (or friends) to see his hobby set-up. Or not.

NOW let's assume this person also meets up, eventually, with another person who happens to be engaged in the same hobby (someone like Elizabeth Ricker). A person equally passionate about it. They form a friendship through common experiences, and begin to work together in their hobby...trading information, experiences, techniques, even exchanging the products of their hobby. Even though they live in much different areas of the country, and are not neighbors. At some point, their friendship becomes so anchored in the common joys and passions of their shared hobby, that they form a partnership to foster a growth of the hobby in a new location where, before, it may have been little known or totally unknown. This person even moves out there for a short time in order to be closer to his hobbyist friend, to work with that friend to mutual benefit. And the results prove not only enjoyable, but profitable and garner them a great deal of attention and further cooperation from others of like interest.

Given those scenarios, whom do you suppose would have a better understanding and knowledge of this hypothetical person's hobby? A co-worker? His wife? A friend? Or someone who is engaged in the SAME hobby, and enough so to form a collaborative partnership with this person? And of those, whose opinions and observations about the first person's hobby are you going to put more stock in? I happen to think the answer is pretty darned obvious. The latter.

(Certainly my friends know some details about my life and interests. And a few of my closer co-workers (and their wives or husbands) may. But it is my friends who share my common interests (those hobbies and activities I choose to engage in) who know much more about those hobbies and activities than my other friends, any of my co-workers, and even better than my family members generally speaking. Naturally.)




Yes, I know the links don't specifically mention Seppala's breeding program in Alaska. But that is a verification, within the limits of this discussion, as much as it is an omission. If Seppala had been mixing breeds in Little Creek as you say the Davis material suggests, they would likely have mentioned it, as it would have been a significant matter against the preponderance of contrary evidence. The Poland Springs and Seppala kennels, and the authorship and research work of people like Jeff Bragg, are widely considered, in the historical community as well as that of those who preserve the very rare (and, unfortunately, dwindling) line of Siberians which came originally out of Seppala's breeding program (the breed currently known as the "Seppala Siberian Sled Dog")...not the very manipulated lines which became the modern "Siberian Husky" show dog. Bragg's research especially is thorough, exhaustive and spot-on. Yet he makes no mention (that I have ever seen in all his works) of this mixing of breeds that you assert, and that Mary Davis claimed.

The Siberian Husky Club of America. The flagship of the club set. A political and bureaucratic body, like any other breed club (large or small). As far as I am concerned, that obviates any statements made by breed clubs by and large. I place more faith and credence in what is said by the Nome Kennel Club, since they have better access to (and knowledge of) historical records in Nome Alaska than I do a national U.S. breed club for the breed which has altered since the 1930s, and the official recognition of the American Kennel Club (which, strangely, still calls the real Balto an "Alaskan Malamute"...a claim which not only is patently ridiculous, but has no basis in any scientific analysis or conclusion). I have seen how breed clubs operate, and how they can hold sway with their views. And those don't always tally with dispassionate and scientific method. Or thorough historical analysis. Frankly, while I don't know anyone in the staff or management of either the SHCA or the AKC (who would have identified themselves as such), and have nothing against them beyond those points I mentioned, I place little faith in what they say simply because they believe themselves to be the be-all, end-all (and, in general, they do seem to behave very much like that). Elizabeth Ricker was heavily and intimately involved with Seppala through the late twenties and early thirties in dog breeding specifically. And even more specifically in the breeding of Siberians from Seppala's stock...the lines which originated from Markovo, Anadyr and other Siberian trading posts and regions. She would have a far more accurate view of Seppala, his breeding program, and his dogs than the wife of a miner who just happened to live in Alaska and may have spoken to and interacted with Seppala from time to time.

Newspapers then, as well as now, were owned and managed by corporate and political entities, or those with corporate or political allegiances, and were capable not only of gross inaccuracies in reporting, but also of outright fabrications and even of payoffs to people for stories (whatever stories would be told for the sum offered). It is doubtless that reporters were searching for "scoops" and offering mushers (and those who knew them) money for interviews, with the encouragement to tell them anything interesting and exciting, but were over the course of months following the run, guilty of ridiculous errors. We all know of Seppala's initial anger about the newspapers reporting Balto as THE hero of the serum run, and erroneously heaping Togo's past accomplishments onto Balto. That's just one example. There are others (I don't happen to have them in front of me, and it would take time to research them). And if one considers the kind of "reporting" that, say, the newspapers were doing in April 1912, when the RMS Titanic went down in the North Atlantic, the way they bungled the facts of that tragic event; or, say, the way the American Civil War was covered by that "noble" journalistic body, would make your assertion of newspapers as "excellent sources of information" utterly laughable. I mean no offense, but you placing such faith in newspapers, given those examples (and there would be thousands of others in relation to historical events) is just really nuts.

As to the book Togo's Fireside Reflections, while it is a fascinating and wonderful piece of literature, it is also a fictionalized version of Togo's life, taking elements of his real life from whatever Seppala did tell Ricker directly (and there was less of that than one might suppose. Do you see a day-to-day, twelve-year accounting of everything Togo did in any of her works? Or anyone else's? No.), and of what Ricker was able to observe herself in Togo's later years. It is also written for children, and anthropomorphizes Togo so that the story is told from his point of view. A touching work. And an excellent piece of literary history. But something to base historical research on? Not likely. And I am surprised you'd put more stock in that than the more studious book you and the SHCA refer to as a "whitewash". I guess that, since there is nothing critical or denunciatory about Seppala in Ricker's book about him (which is mostly material compiled by Seppala himself and then presented to Ricker to put into her book), it must therefore mean that it is a "whitewash" by default. Hmm. Interesting. I would hardly call Ricker's effort a "whitewash". Perhaps, if that moniker has any validity (which I seriously disagree with), it would only be inasmuch as Seppala was whitewashing his own life in order to paint a very rosy picture of himself. So you're placing more faith in selected individuals who knew him only because they happened to also live in Alaska? And because their writings have given you the picture of Seppala that you wanted? Curious.

You must be a Siberian person. Perhaps a breeder, or a member of a breed club. No offense, because I think breed clubs are wonderful things, but I have seen the contrary side of breed clubs and how they pick and choose little bits and pieces of sometimes obscure information and hold it up as irrefutable fact. I have dealt with Siberian Husky club people before, from various breed clubs (especially one club situated out in Oregon. Hmmm...) where they tend to have very pointed, lopsided and often politically-motivated views of the serum run history. And of the very old "Togo was burned by Balto" mentality, as perpetrated by those who latch onto only a small part of Leonhard Seppala's early anger about the press giving all of its attention to Balto, and erroneously associating Togo's past accomplishments (and the heroism of the serum run exclusively) to Balto. Leonhard Seppala himself later qualified what he had said in anger...anger directed wrongfully at a DOG (when, if anything, the anger would have been more accurately aimed at his associate, Gunnar Kaasen).

Sorry...but I'm not buying into it. One person's statement does not an historical fact make. Especially when the statement is made about another person, and that person himself was, to all evidence so far (unless I have missed something), silent on the matter. Until I see irrefutable evidence to the contrary, either from Leonhard Seppala himself, his wife Constance, or perhaps Theodore Kingeak, who worked in Seppala's kennels and assisted him often over the years, I am not going to take that, or a picture of one dog with an extra-long coat, as sufficient evidence to support the implication that, for even a brief time, he interbred dogs of more than one breed. Especially when Seppala himself is so often quoted as to his dedication to Siberians.

You're right. A shorter concluding post about this topic would be appropriate. So just a quick review of the previous message:

You have little faith in the historical records of the SHCA, even though they have a large and accurate collection.

You mostly blanketly dismiss all old newspaper accounts just because some weren't entirely accurate. You jump to the conclusion that this must apply to thousands of articles and that some of the mushers involved in the serum run were paid off to say certain things. As you said, I mean no offense, but that kind of reasoning is so wild that I can't even understand it.

You say the Togo's Fireside Relections book is a children's book and a fictionalized version of Togo's life (which it is not). Anyone who has read this book would not make that kind of a statement.

Even though an objective writer made a statement about Seppala's breeding program in Alaska, and the fact that there are photos of at least 3 different dogs from Seppala's kennel in Nome who are not purebred Siberians, you say there is no evidence of Seppala cross-breeding any of his dogs, unless someone like he or his wife happened to say it.

You wrote "Elizabeth Ricker was heavily and intimately involved with Seppala through the late twenties and early thirties" That statement is the one thing you are right about, in more ways than one. I suppose if I said that Edward Ricker filed for divorce against Elizabeth and that one of the grounds was that she had been unfaithful in her marriage, you wouldn't believe that either? I would refer you to the records and proceedings of the Ricker divorce case. They are a matter of public record.

Back to the original topic in this section of the forum. All the credible evidence points to Balto being a purebred Siberian.

That is your right. Years of historical research in various periods leads me to conclude it and I have seen enough of it to know that a large quantity of newspaper articles are slanted. I didn't ever say "all", nor have I jumped to any conclusions. I base my conclusions upon real experience digging through microfilm in libraries and state archives all over the U.S. Certainly there are some articles that are more balanced and accurate. However, as I have said to many people, and I am hardly alone in this assertion, newspapers are not to be considered a primary research tool, as they are notoriously unreliable and slanted.


I didn't say it was a work of fiction. I said it was fictionalized. It is not a moment-to-moment, or absolute spot-on accounting of Togo's real life. I admit that I have not read the entire book, but I have read large passages from it. As I said, it is a fascinating and wonderful piece of historical literature. But I have heard others also speak of the book being Ricker's interpretations of Togo's life, after couching it in language aimed at children (rather like Robert Blake's book on Togo, another wonderful piece of literature by a great author), and by anthropomorphizing Togo. Have you spoken to every single person on the planet who has ever seen a copy of the book, or read it? Of course not. So to make the statement about "anyone who has read it" is presumptuous.


No, that's not what I said. I said I would put more creedence in the statements of someone like Constance Seppala, Sigrid Seppala, Theodore Kingeak, even Gunnar Kaasen over Mary Lee Davis.

Besides, if you have documentation that the three dogs you refer to are not purebred Siberian huskies of the Markovo, Anadyr and other Siberian lines, then produce it. I would be very happy to acknowledge it if that were so. Openly. But since you have made the assertion, I believe it falls to you to produce the materials to back up that assertion. Otherwise, room for doubt and interpretation remains.


Perhaps. But this is not about Elizabeth's relationship with her husband, or any interaction she had with Leonhard Seppala beyond the matter of dogs, dog sledding and breeding. And I care not to speak on any matter regarding her personal life. Strange, how you seem to be so generally down on Elizabeth Ricker...with the possible exception of your views on her children's book. I find that quite curious. lol Stranger still that Constance stayed with Leonhard through the remainder of their lives together. Happily.

Well, actually, as far as I see it I am right about everything I have said so far. Or there has been no concrete evidence produced to prove me wrong. And hey, at least I have been willing to say, openly, that if I am wrong about something I have said (such as the mixed breed question on some of Seppala's dogs...beyond Suggen and Togo, of whom we all know about and which, I believe, was a fluke), I would gladly admit it. I am waiting for the same from you. Did I miss it somehow? I love how some of you modern-day Siberian clubby people love to play that "gosh, how wrong you are, and you just don't get it" thing. ROFL "My way or the highway". Getting to the truth of history is about mutually respectful, dispassionate and intelligent dialogue, free of petty characterizations and offensive posturing. Only then can there be give and take, and mutual education of all involved. Language couched in holier-than-thou bluster is calculated to bring that process crashing down. And I have seen it quite a bit from the very unbending, very unreasonable, very narrow-minded among the Siberian Husky club set (specifically from one particular club out on the northwest coast), whereas I have also seen some very intelligent and decent mentality and discussion from other clubs and individuals in them...by people who know how to communicate without offensive bluster. And, in general, by individual Sibe owners without membership in any breed club.


On that we both agree.

I'm reminded of the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." In this case, I have presented the truth about certain things - but I can't make or force someone else to accept them. That's their choice. And on these subjects, it will be their loss. Oh well, at least I tried.

Ah yes, well, thank you for pointing that out with such amazing humility. ROFL I could just as easily say the same thing (and I have tried). At least I was willing to offer an opening if you could provide some documentation to correct any errors I hypothetically may have been responsible for. You still seem unwilling to extend that same courtesy. Tsk. It's not the first time I've dealt with such a personality. And I am pretty sure it won't be the last. I have a small but vocal set of naysayers and hecklers who seem to enjoy taking me on this journey every so often, and yet they never, ever seem able to provide any evidence to back up their "truths". Heh. So it goes.

The plain fact of the matter is, as I heard a documentary producer (who is working on a very well-researched program about the serum run for upcoming release) once say to me: "you know, there are so many conflicting stories about the serum run and its many participants, and so many varied accounts, and so little hard documentation, that we may never really know all of the facts, nor the entire story. And people will always argue about it, and claim they have the answers." And, as I and so many other historical researchers have so often said in the past, especially about personalities such as your's, Sarah, "only a fool thinks he (or she) has all the answers, and knows everything about a certain period of history. The process of research and learning goes ever on." Take it to heart. It would serve you well.

And best of luck to you.

Excuse me, JerseyCaptain, but I am offended by what you have stated. You have just stated that "Getting to the truth of history is about mutually respectful, dispassionate and intelligent dialogue, free of petty characterizations and offensive posturing. Only then can there be give and take, and mutual education of all involved. Language couched in holier-than-thou bluster is calculated to bring that process crashing down." I am pretty sure that you did exactly that. You seem to be the one that was making petty characterizations. I am a member of a Siberian Husky Club of America and I found your generalization that most members of the club are unbending, very unreasonable, and very narrow minded to be offensive.

Please do not paint people with a broad brush.

I am not going to respond to a flame bait.