Animation Source Forums

I'm sorry things ended in such a crappy way around here. :C
Aaaand it's been pretty much a downward spiral ever since, to be honest. I don't think there's much hope for AS now, almost everyone I know who could've made a change has long since thrown in the towel thanks to having their efforts thrown back in their faces.

I am though glad I kept in touch with the friends I made here off site, you included. xD
And that you got to say your piece about it all, I would say I hope it makes a difference but I highly doubt it, been proven too many times that AS only finds new ways to disappoint.
Glad you managed to turn it around too.

I'm not going to opine here.

What I will do is point out that I made a similar effort in the Suggestions board. Though I chose to direct my comments in as much of a proactive and positive way as could be done (given the status quo on Animation Source), and with a proactive intent. And I preferred not to focus on myself any my personal experiences, as they are not particularly relevant to the bigger issue...that of fixing Animation Source (if it even CAN be fixed at this point). No one's personal quibbles are particularly relevant. That Animation Source needs a sweeping overhaul IS.

While you are all digesting TheTogo's post, I recommend you venture over to mine for a different point of view...if perhaps one motivated by the same existing situation (Animation Source's I mean).

To wit:

/board/an-open-letter-to-steet-t34969.html

I do remember when you were around, Togo, but I didn't know you well and you probably don't remember me.

I joined BaltoSource as an eager 11-year-old in early 2008. I had been visiting the site without an account for quite a while and was ecstatic when, after I built up the courage to ask, my parents said that I could get an account. I did meet friends here in those early days--Ilue, Saphire, and Dunkin come to mind.

Throughout my now 5 years here, I've gone through different phases of being more or less active. There would be periods of time in which I would check or updates constantly, making a lot of posts and always being eager for replies. There were other times in which I would check a few times out of boredom, but I wasn't uber-interested in the site's goings-on. The time in which you "left", Togo, was one of my less-active times. I had heard of you, seen a few of your posts, but I didn't really know you personally much at all--and I certainly had no idea how much work you'd put into this site. 

I'm very sorry about the hurt that this site has causes you. I and many others now have long since noticed that AnimationSource has been deteriorating. I suppose we more strongly know why now. 

On a bit of a tangent, this reminds me vaguely of what happened to another fansite that I used to visit, an Avatar fan forum entitled "Kataang Forever." It had for a long time been revered as a friendly, peaceful community. People seemed to have only good things to say about it. However, due to funding problems, the admin decided to close the site, posting a topic explaining it about a month in advance. 

Preparing for the  closing of the site, members began posting shoutouts, last words, final confessions, etc...and not all of those final words were as happy as we would have thought. Underneath the happy, friendly layer, there were people feeling left out, ignored, hurt. It was as you said: there can be no light without some shadow.

That seems to be, in part, similar to what's happening now.

I am sorry for the hardships you faced for this site. I an grateful for the immense amount of tome and care you put into it while you still could. I'm not sure what we can so with it now, if anything, but I am sorry.

Will I be branded a naysayer and have my post moderated by the moderation team if I come out and say that this topic will be looked at and forgotten by next Thursday? I mean, if swearing was allowed here, I'd deliver a very obvious meme quote but I won't because I want to be civil and, above all, realistic.

Now, the inspirational voice in Togo's post must've have floated over my head because I barely got a quarter of the way through it before I had a strange sense of deja vu. Oh, yes: it's that old 'AS isn't the same anymore' message that some of the veteran members have been writing for the past 3 or 4 years, except the author has added his personal life experience in the hope that it'll be 'deeper' and more meaningful. That there is a person behind that post. A commendable effort. However, it's really sad he had had lower himself to this and come back to a site he obviously dislikes today to say it, after years of not being part of it. I personally feel like he's talking down to me rather than being inspirational but I don't blame him for that. At all. The next step to getting this message through to some of you would be hammering a nail through your skulls.

In regards to Steet, however, he's the epitome of a 'beating a dead horse'. Open letter has been done already. He doesn't care. He has a LIFE, people. I don't know if you realize but worrying about bears flying planes is far more important than listening to your friends who actually care more for your creation than yourself. Yes, that was sarcasm, in case anyone didn't catch that. I personally wouldn't trust him with a plant nowadays, yet alone a huge webspace like this. His head is stuck in the clouds, he's sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'lalalala not listening' like a trooper when topics like this come along. To be honest, Steet, if you read Togo's words and actually post here with a non-dismissive comment, I'll be checking Mars for pig colonies.

The members here can only do so much. It is an admin's job to make sure his website is properly coded, secure and presentable. AS is none of these things. I die a little inside when I stuff in French lying around. I don't have anything against the French or the French language by the way, I'd happily migrate to the French side if I could figure out that language. However, how are the members meant to be mature and presentable if the site itself is not? This isn't rocket science, we don't need an essay on how AS sucks because that hasn't worked out too well the first few dozen times and it certainly won't be the lucky number when I actually post my take on this.

Very true, Togo, sadly, just like RetectiveRJ said, Steet doesn't come here anymore. He sometimes appears and uptates only his beloved, and pretty much very inactive Tale Spin Source. But even if people tried to grab his attention on TSS shoutbox, he ignored them. Like you said, Togo, he became greedy and selfish, wanting to be the only admin on the site but not caring about his creation at all.

Now about the mods and members, the atmosphere on the site became very frustrating due to lack of proper administration. There were massive troll and spam attacks. People offered help in coding and security. He rejected it. People offered help as moderators, he rejected them. Instead, after a removal of one of the previous mod, he hired a person I, personally don't know much because of his lack of activity and don't see on the sites. There is not one to oficially change some rules because only administrator can do it.

I came to this site in 2006. I was young and my works (even though thet actually were Balto-related) were really horrible and you could say I didn't put much effort to them (which was untrue, but it doesn't matter). Anyway, no one really complained of how bad my language (English is not my native language neither) nor my creations were. Now I noticed that people became picky instead of helpful, even those who weren't like that before. Everyone whose feelings are hurt is automatically being accused of being a whinny loser who can't take a hint. This lead us to conflicts, accusations, flaming and forming alliances, changing them and even more hate after all, like a blind circle. I'm very afraid it can't be fixed now. Even if situation will be calmed, those people are usually the most active, contributing members and their predictions towards each other after past conflicts will never disapear.

Well spoken, Togo. Well spoken..You've hit the nail on the head in so many ways.

Even though we've never talked before, I know who you are, and I realize you were a huge part of the site.

I commend you for your courage to be honest and speak out, and I'm terribly sorry for the pain you've experienced.

okay, and obviously I'm going to point out the obvious, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I've been on this site since 2007, and discovered it a year before. I've seen it all, to put it bluntly. I've seen all the highs and all the lows.

Frankly I don't think this could get any lower.

We all know this site has hit rock bottom about now. :/ We all just need to step away from the site and take a deep breath.

There's a lot of damage that's been done, and "restoring" Animation Source may or may not happen. It'll never be like it was.

It's just not possible. :/ So many people have left, and they've all said the same thing "It's just not worth it."

Which is pretty sad, considering the site has had so many better years...

This is going to be sappy, but I feel I really need to say...


I really have nothing to add. A lot of old members are crawling out of the woodwork to be nostalgic, but I don't feel that's really appropriate. My story is so similar to some people (mostly Paxis), it'd be redundant to tell it anyway.

But I did want to say how sad I am to have witnessed AS's terrible demise. It's as Troll said really. I feel helpless wanting to change things, but I know that without a lot of help from fellow members, it's really a futile effort. I wanted so many times to just leave for good, but there was always something that made me stick around, that I can't really explain or understand.

I feel part of the reason I stick around, is the members. Both the old that I wish to keep in touch with. And the new who barely or just don't know how to act online. They're great people if you give them a chance to grow. Sadly, not a lot of people try to give them a chance, and that's a part of the reason the site's failing. It is our fault. And I'm sorry for that. That I didn't learn and grow enough before it was too late. That I didn't always do my best when I was a mod, though I like to think I at least tried. That I didn't try to get to know members like I try so futilely now. That I didn't try harder way back when.

Togo, I didn't know you very well then, only knew of you, and I don't know you now. But I am sorry for all that's happened. Your story is a sad one when all you work for is thrown back in your face a bleeding dying mess, and everyone you worked so hard to help just ignored your pleas and hurt you. I wish that more people thanked you for your effort. Thanked you for building the foundation of their fondest memories of being on this site. I am glad to hear things have worked out for you with your books. I hope they continue to do so so as it's what you deserve. And thank you for all you've done for us.

I have never felt more e of a need to reply to a post than I have right now. Togo, I certainly remember your time on here, and although I haven't been on for as many years, I have seen this site undergo a dark, dark change. Some of the things I have seen are good-- there are great people on here; others, horrible things and nasty going ons.

I started out on here with a stupid username-- jennatheredhusky, I believe (and I'm cringing at it now.). I have made many a great friend, some I believe I will truly never forget and hope to keep in touch with until the day I die. They were enjoyable, fun, and some have made great, wonderful art over the years and I've watched them grow and improve on their art. I believe that while I'm not a senior on here, I have been around long enough to seen many sides of this site.

As for Balto itself, I have always, always[i][/i] been a huge fan of it. I first saw the movie when I was two or three and loved it since. The characters are greatly memorable and a wonderful childhood memory, and the music was absolutely phenomenal. The animation, of course, was stunning, as those were the last of the "golden years" for hand-drawn animation. Even now, when at my grandparents, they will be scanning for something to watch on TV and if they come across Balto, will actually put it on. I have fond, fond memories of the movie, and will continue to love it for the rest of my life.

Your post is both riddled with wise words and saddening, but I suppose the saying, "All good things come to an end" really comes in place here. However, I feel the odd sensation to really make a comeback and make great art for this site. I wish that the younger members can experience the great times we all had here, without hurting one another and not just becoming another internet community.

Thank you for making this post. I, among others, appreciate the courage, strength, and wit you gave into making this, and congratulations on how far you've come! I wish you lots of luck on your journey through life.

Thank you for all your hardwork, Togo. You are right. This site has made many changes too to my life. My english used to be much more worst than this and I have to admit, my drawings improved because of AS. I remember I first found this site around 3 or 4 years ago(Cannot remember exactly) when I was browsing for pictures of Balto. This site, when I first saw it I was amazed with everything this site has. I joined and made friends, learn the importance of copyright respect, and I also found my first love here. I used to be so addicted to this site. Everyday, I would visit it! I remember the good old times I used to had here.

Thank you once again, Togo. You are not just a history. You are also a hero for AS and for the members! Without you we will not be who we are now. This would probably be my last post as I am not as active as I used to be but AS, especially BS will forever stays in this heart.

Tragic story.
Tragic reality. I, sadly was not here in the good ole' days.
I love Balto, and classic animation so much, Animation Source probably also would have become a part of me. Now, it is a mere past.

I too was run away, like many of us, who simply wanted peace, and to enjoy each-other, and to enjoy the site, the animation source itself.
Now, like you I have moved on to bigger and better things, though, animation source was still an inspiration for me, it helped launch my artistic career and encourage it to forever be.

The animation source, sadly, is dead. It was brutally murdered.

I joined BS in 2006 as Straythebluewolf. I was 15, a sophomore in high school, and just changed schools from a standard private school to a boarding school. It was a big change and what difficulty I had making friends at a new school, I had no problem establishing roots in the artistic community in BS. My graphic work has evolved thanks to BS (well... when I stopped tracing that is) and I've made several friends here. As pathetic as it sounds, I wasn't alone with BS.

It's now 2013. I graduate college in a few months and who knows where my work will take me. I haven't been active due to this and other factors but I will at least say my piece.

I'm not on anyone's side in this matter. Togo's, Steet's, JC's, whoever. If I had to pick one member by force, I'd look to Koko's post here.

Picking sides has just exacerbated the problem and more the userbase divides, the more the site crumbles. Animation Source hasn't been on the same page in years. There are gaps to be bridged and compromises to be made. It's high time this has happened. It's easier said than done, but it's time to drop grudges and complaints and get to work. Change doesn't happen without action and it's up to the users to pull together and make it work. It won't be easy to fix years of damage and it won't happen overnight, but it can be done.

We all have to get on the same wavelength.

I remember when I was around for about a year and a half on this site. I could not stand it. If one person said something. A spark light and it spread like a wildfire. If I even mention my name that I had before on here. I would get flamed at. Just because my account was hacked once.

Togo is right though. Most of the problems that have happened on this screen you call a 'website' is peoples' fault. They are behind the screen. They can do what ever they want to and not get caught. I dare the people who act the way they are on this website. To act like that in the real world. I bet you anything you would get ganged up on. Punched, and beaten to a pulp.

Why doesn't it happen here? Because you guys are states. Countries. or even CONTINENTS apart from each other. So you think that sitting behind a screen, with your typing hands ready to flame at others and your mouse ready to click while you sit there laughing you butt off.

Then you have the famous troll attacks. When I first joined. Trolls never bugged the site. Then someone came on and massively hacked the site. Why? Because they could. They were behind a screen where they can code their little butts off and not care one bit about what happened. I have one question for Steet. Do you truly care about your site? Or do you only care about Tale Spin? Seriously. When was the last time he posted something on any other site, other then Tale Spin?

Togo. Do not feel bad. I had a hard time leaving this site my self. And through the words of someone who hasn't really even remotely touched this site since around April of 2012. I didn't care one bit when I left, I was upset. I didn't care. Why am I here now? A friend of mine who I met from here posted a link to this topic. This topic. I read through the entire thing. ?

It's heartbreaking knowing what has happened to this site in a 1 1/2 year span. And then this site goes bad. I will not be surprised if this site will even exist by the Winter of 2013. If It is, Then something is still keeping this site up. And I know what it would be. Hate. People love hate on the internet. Seeing little kids whine, but ask your self. Is it really necessary to have any of that going on? Could you imagine life with peace? No you can't. Because over time you've gotten used to playing Call of Duty, battlefield 3. Or any of those war games, or violent games that causes the violence on this very fragile planet we call Earth.

I really don't feel like saying more. This site has enough problems to deal with. I just can't stand getting on this site. Just to chat to one friend that I can not reach anywhere else.

True fact to say now. I'm Cero.

Compared to many, i have been on the site for only the teeniest amount of time, since 2011. But like you, Togo, i can see the potential, and also though i don't like it very much, i see the truth in your words, in my short time here i have seen much of what you talked about, the good and the bad, though unfortunately more bad than good. I've heard many of what i call the "senior" members talk about "the good old days" and I'm sorry to have missed them, but i am glad that i did find this site, i really like it here, I've met friends here, I'm more popular here than in real life, and i don't know where I'd be without my friends, something i had so few of and longed for before i came here. Before i came here i also had less confidence in myself, in being myself, after coming here I've gained more confidence in myself, and learned to be myself more. I really hope the site can improve and go back to, or as close as we can get to, the way it was.

Togo, I...I'm so sorry you got put through that. Putting so much work into a site, and loving it so dearly, and only to be stripped away for no good reason by someone who only visits one of the 15 or so sources-and of all of those sources, it had to be TaleSpin. Why not Balto?

Okay, listen, just to let everyone know, I originally typed a long, thought-out, 7-paragraph reply that had plenty of interesting and important information on how we could restore the site to its former glory. But for some terrible, evil, tragic reason, I accidentally deleted my two hours worth of typing by pressing the backspace key after highlighting all the text, and then, all my hard work, both mental and physical...gone. I was downright heartbroken, and you don't know how long I cried. Maybe tomorrow I will come back and try to remember what it said in my original response and try to retype and send it, but for now, I am just too tired and sad. Sorry.

However, for now I will say this. AS has too many rules. People have no freedom for creativity. Attitude on the site has to change, not rules such as the Sparkle dog rule! Oh, man, my original response was SO much better sounding than that! Oh, I worked on that reply for two HOURS! And then, literally five words of typing away from sending it, it was deleted, and I have NO way to get it back. I am truly sorry that I have to give you all this incredibly rushed and trashy reply instead, but I am far too physically and emotionally drained from my original reply being deleted, that I just can't type any more right now. Sorry. I promise I will think up another, better reply to say later.

It is quite sad how far down the site has gone. I've been trying to think of a way to reply since I read this two days ago, I guess I'm just going to wing it now.

I joined in December of 2010, my first account that is. I had visited the site for about a year before that. It was still exponentially better then, even though I very well may have been oblivious to the problems then. Most 13 year olds are, I suppose. I ran into a few problems, sure. But I loved the site dearly, and I still do now to some degree.

I made a second account a little over three months afterwards, deleting the old one, for reasons can't seem to recall at this point in time. I stayed on that one the longest. I made stronger friendships here than I ever imagined possible, people I will never forget and hope to meet someday. Maybe this is what has kept me here; I keep trying to leave, bu fail and return. It's a bittersweet bondage. This account was made due to password problems, which I later resolved, but stayed on this one anyway.

I think it started to really fall after the hacker attack, the really big one in June 2011. Maybe this place should just be shut down, sent to the dusty old website graveyard that most sites hit eventually. Give all the members a month's notice to get all o their arts and such rounded up and saved elsewhere, and say goodbye altogether. What else is there to do? There's no way to fix it unless we have at least 50% of the members on board and our Webmaster giving his full attention.

Balto Source, to me, seems to be the biggest problem. Most other sources are peaceful and friendly, because there aren't as many people actively using them.

But I'm rambling here. Thank you for your words, Togo.