Animation Source Forums

well, i never obligated you to teach anything im just saying i also critic people, and most of the people i critic treat me quite well and reply to my critics in a friendly manner, and not only that but they come and ask me for help before submitting a new drawing, that actually makes me feel like my way does work, as i don't get drama or flamebaits, but again, i never forced you to anything so you can do whatever

exactly that's what it means, you're not all the time treating with full adults or people who are willing to acept full negatie critics, it is different to read..

"you have done a good work with the paws, though legs could be a little shorter it would look better, watch the picture of this dog of the same breed of the dog you drew (link to image), and the design.. maybe a little lighter shade of blue greish" would make it a lil' more realistic!
i also like the way you did the background, but that grass looks a little "punk" you should better use real grass as reference as you see, it's not straight up is more likely.. letting the wind move it, that would be a nice sensation to see in this drawing"

instead of

"that grass looks totally unrealilstic it looks like it's totally up like if it was wet in hair foam..., and that dog has too long legs it looks more than a jirafe... and that bllueihs color makes it look like a sparkledog

if i would see that critic under any of my drawings i would definitely be asking a mod to delete it as it is offensive and breaking down for me,

That is neither trolling nor flame-baiting. That is a legitimate statement about the content of this fan site and what it ought to be, and they have a point. Non-related works should NOT be on this site.

Is it a critique? No. Could they have worded it more politely? Sure. But "trolling"? "Flame-baiting"? Hardly.That would be something more along the lines of "psh, this pic sux, and you'll never amount to anything because it's stupid, so just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong, dummy!"

In response to the 'add something nice to your critique or it's a bashing' statement, I'd rather have someone be brutally honest with me and help me improve than lie through their teeth and say they like something they actually dislike.

Yeah, my art has gotten flame comments about it before. Did I get upset about it? Sure, I thought I was Da Vinci. Screw anyone who told me otherwise. Did it discourage me from drawing or give me PTSD? Nope. I was determined to master my own style because someone mentioned my style was... Well, awful, to avoid profanity. Now, I'm grateful for the brutality of those guys who got my art and tore into it with a surgeon's scalpel because I would've carried on thinking I was the fountain of all knowledge and would never have the 'I can still improve next year or the year after' mentality. It's not a bad thing for an artist to have, it stops you from developing USI and take in differing opinions. In short, it's life experience. It's a lesson.

If we step on eggshells around these children and their art, what are we teaching them exactly? That the internet is a rosy place with sunshine and rainbows and people are always going to agree with you? lol - nope. It's better to prepare them for the fact that there are vicious people on the internet that will not hold back on critiquing your artwork. And the scary thing is: they're probably right.

Young kids on the internet that apparently hold a degree in I KNOW EVERYTHING LOL annoy me, they really do and I'm not going to support that behaviour and be a doormat because some people view critique as 'mean'. Yes, they're kids yadda yadda and we were all kids once yadda yadda but there are 13-year-olds and 14-year-olds out there that are amazing at artwork and are so modest and professional in what they do. How do I know? Because I've commissioned them in the past to do stuff for me. So, don't turn around and say we should encase children in bubble wrap because they're children and harsh words may damage their precious ears. It's offensive to children who can behave like adults and can take critique. It's also damaging to these kids because they'll go through their teenage years thinking they can just waltz into Disney and become a famous animator at the age of 18 before harsh reality sets in and they realise they've probably made a big gamble in picking art as a career.

I'm saying all of this because, right now, I sincerely regret picking art as a career. I really wish someone had grabbed me by the shoulders, shook me violently and told me to set out and do something with more open doors, like English literature or creative writing. Because art is not fun once you realise you'll be doing it as a job and that job depends on just how good your work is.

/end two cents

Beautifully-said, RJ. THANK you! Good to have the input of experienced fan artists on this!

I agree; well-said, RJ!

I'd also like to add to the whole "they're just children" thing...childhood is a time in your life for learning. Learning how to walk, to talk, to socialize and interact. Learning to behave well, in public at the very least. And what (should) happen when a child does something wrong? They get punished, to varying levels depending on the "crime" committed. Maybe it's just a brief lecture for not sharing your toy, maybe it's removing privileges for disobedience, maybe it's a spank for taking cookies out of the cookie jar. But regardless of which punishment is chosen, it is not just a leave them alone and let them think that what they're doing is ok. A punishment may hurt their feelings, but they need to LEARN, and that happens through the consequences brought about by choice.

My parents were never much of the physical punishers (though we did receive spanks from time to time), but my dad did seem to be rather fond of giving lectures on consequence--the effects that a choice has on you. He always gave these lectures after dealing out a punishment, so naturally, young me began to associate the word "consequence" with something negative. But as I grew older, I came to realize that consequences were merely happenings brought about by a choice. Every choice, big ir small, had at least one. They could be bad, but they could also be good. You just had to be prepared to face the consequences of the choices you've made.

Does this not apply to the art and posting it online? You choose to post your work online. The consequence of this is that it will be exposed to a large number of people and they may comment on it. Those comments may be praises. They may be critiques. Either is plenty possible. If you don't want any possible change of getting your work critiqued, then don't post it in a public place where hundreds of people can potentially comment and critique.

And if you get critiqued? Like your parents correcting misbehaviors, more experienced artists and observes may come by and give corrections. It's part of learning. It's part of LIFE.

Yes, some of these people are children (and yes, granted, some are teens or adults who act like children). But that doesn't mean they are exempt from any form of corrections. Imagine all the spoiled brats we'd have walking around if parents excused their misbehaviors by saying, "oh, they're just children! Leave their poor hurt souls alone!"

Well, I imagine it would be much like the concentrations of "pouty princesses" and "self-proclaimed pros" hosted here in the web.

... I don't see it at all like the same example, as parents correcting msibehaviors like criticers critizing, honestly, you can do whatever, but i really must say i doubt you're going to get people to understand that critics are not a personal attack by unpolite words and attacks, there are people that behave like children on the source, yeah sure, but if you have a problem on how they react and you keep critizing rather unpolitely or simply not helpful.. then.. you shouldn't really be complaining about getting flame,

again this is just my own critic to your critizing methods, you can do whatever you like im not saying you should sugarcoat anything, just suggesting to word politely, show how to improve, and treat friendly but again it's just an advice, you can do Whatever

But I've seen young artists respond to what is deemed as 'polite' and helpful criticism as negatively as blunt criticism. Also, I say good luck to 'em if they're expecting polite, respectful words from their tutors in art school. The general art industry is just as ruthless as well.

I must say that in every general situation I've seen these so-called 'flamers' and 'trolls' involved in around the site, the conversation has started off relatively tame but has then escalated to comments on the artist's attitude. Why? Because the artist verbally flips a table and makes out that the whole word and their dog is against them. Sorry, but if someone was creating a scene before me over what I deem as helpful advice and not a personal attack, I'd call them out on it, because 1) I'd feel embarrassed for them and 2) they'll tick someone off eventually with less rationality than myself.

I don't really know what you've seen, i know off my eperience, and i've criticed many people (Specially by pm, if the person commit mistakes into the picture, why do i have to publish it like "ohh look this persosn made the legs too short!" well first off nobody cares what i saay to that person so first off i send a pm, and i have always ALWAYS been politely responded, since i had my first account in 2009, i am not new to this site that's my advice, now whoever wants to take it, take it, who doesn't, forget it

Unfortunately, as someone else has already said, when you put your work up on public domain, expect the public to have their opinion on it. Sending people PMs is indeed a polite way of doing it but you could very well get a tirade of abuse back through that method too.

And I've been on this site since 2005 and, believe me, the mindset of artists and their attitude to constructive criticism has gone downhill since I first joined. You'd look back at the art community 8 years ago and you wouldn't think they'd originated from the same site as these artists that have mentally wrapped themselves in cotton wool, despite posting something that is apparently quite special and 'personal' to them on the internet. Where everyone can see it.

I can understand why people wish to post their stuff here because, as opposed to DA, we're apparently meant to keep any honest, blunt criticism under check for fear of 'causing drama' or being seen as 'flame-baiting'. I think that's wrong, to be honest, because my personal experience on has taught me that this website really stumped my growth as an artist.