Animation Source Forums

Okay, admittedly, I'm not a fan artist. However, I think it's safe for me to say that, in the world of art (professional or otherwise), it is an acceptable axiom that one need not BE an artist (nor have any special background) in order to comment upon or critique the work of an artist (again, professional or otherwise). So long as the comment or critique is not intended to actually hurt, insult or otherwise do some sort of damage, it is not a bad thing at all.


And then we have the community of Animation Source members. Most being either preteens (aged 9-12), teenagers (aged 13-19), or young adults (aged 20-25). (And then a smaller percentage of adults ranging in age upwards beyond that.) Within that mish-mosh is also a great variety of nationalities, cultural varieties, spoken languages and belief systems. Surely, that tends to contribute to misunderstandings, contextual issues (especially between speakers of different languages and also those with different amounts of education and educational history), etc.


But there are some common bottom lines when it comes to submitting your works on an open, public forum such as Animation Source (even one where registration is required in order to fully participate). Those being:

• If you are unable to accept critiques and criticisms, just because they are not couched in the kind of language, or context, you expect or exclusively desire, then you really are making a mistake by posting them online, where other people are going to comment upon them and critique them;
  
  
• An artist can ONLY grow and evolve in his or her style and technique through critiques and criticism...not solely (and especially not) from only receiving praise and favorites (or "likes" as the case may be);
  
  
• So long as they are not intentionally setting out to be rude, baiting, trolling, or otherwise insulting or hurtful (note: intentionally being the operative word here, folks; burn that into your brains and commit it to long-term memory), members have every right to comment upon and critique your submissions, even IF you don't want such and even IF you have specifically asked for people not to. Again: public, open forum...not your own private playhouse.

Most fair to really good fan artists on here (as well as other art sites) and even professional artists will acknowledge these things. They cannot be disputed...even if there are those who will because they simply want to argue with those who comment or critique, or set out to target the comments or critiques of other members, and even IF those who comment or critique are not artists themselves. A person need not be an artist to have an artistic or creative eye...nor belong to some exclusive group of peers or a selective group or type in order to have some implied "right" to comment or critique.


But I think I have never, ever seen it put better than in the way demonstrated in the drawing below. Another member showed this to me today, and it is amazing. And ever-so-applicable to Animation Source (and specifically to Balto Source), where there are SOOOOO many hypersensitive, touchy and temperamental young fan artists who seem hopelessly unable to accept criticism or critiques without presuming them to be hurtful, insulting or embarrassing personal attacks. Ninety-nine percent of the time, those criticisms and/or critiques are nothing of the sort.


But I have seen the situations shown in this drawing occur time and again on this site. Again, ESPECIALLY on Balto Source for some odd reason (though, admittedly, I spend almost no time on the other sources, so I cannot say for certain). And the left-hand column occurs FAR more frequently than the right-hand one. FAR more. And each of the types seen in the left-hand column exist here in droves. A few people, of course, would identify me (and my opinions) with either of the first two types in the right-hand column too (though the views of various fan artists and other members, and a careful analysis of what I've ever actually said, would certainly debunk that notion). I have encountered those situations (on the left) a LOT...though I can truly say I have also encountered the situations on the bottom row too. Frequently. Granted, situations like those in the right-hand column also occasionally occur, but not nearly as much. Not here.


You all could learn something from this drawing, and the message in it. I complimented this artist on this wonderful drawing, and sought her permission to post it here. If she declines, I will remove it. But I don't think she's going to. She knows all about this sort of stuff. And probably knows about the daily drama on this site. But she did a bang-up job laying the situations out! The original can be found here (roll your pointer over the drawing and click to zoom in): http://akreon.deviantart.com/art/The-Hitchhiker-s-Guide-to-Critique-287120707


Behold. Read it, absorb it, commit it to memory. LEARN from it:

Image removed for cursing

Great topic! People should really take the time read over this.

One can only hope. However, I anticipate opposition, griping and "you, of all people, have no business posting this sort of thing" type of situations. I guess we'll see. I know the more sensible and intelligent folks will see this for what it precisely is, and agree with it.


By the by...it's particularly interesting that a person who is not only a good artist, but probably also has had no direct exposure to Animation Source (at least as far as I know at this time) created a relevant piece of commentary in art form that resounds so much about what goes on HERE. It shows that this kind of nonsense is NOT exclusive to Animation Source, and that this is not drama central. It's just one of many places in the net like it.

This topic.
Is perfect.

Great job Jersey, this is something that people should take the time to read.
If people could actually take criticism and learn from it properly, and on the flip side, the critic actually gives constructive and helpful criticism, the world would be a better place XD

Jersey, I salute you. Seriously. It's about TIME somebody said this out loud!

Really, a lot of (new) members outta read this through carefully and sink it to their minds. They would understand us, and the whole site, a whole lot better if you ask me. Great job on this topic, I'm quite positive this will open a lot eyes!

I do have to say, there are some rather true points here JC. Ony a few things that I think missing here, but this is only a generic set of examples, and what I'm thinking of is probably best saved for another topic.


Amen to you Pat, especially on the last part.

Thanks, gang.

I had hoped it would resound...and it seems we're off to a running start. XD



Yeah...like the question of white knights who gang up on those whose comments are presumed to be attacks upon the fan artist. Big problem here and elsewhere. That certainly deserves to be broached. I shall suggest a follow up to the artist.

Perfectly acceptable.
And it being something I myself had to learn, I do say, constructive, helpful critiques should be welcome, and wanted by an artist. I personally get quite a bit of use out of them. Especially, since I also notice 99% of my mistakes and errors after submitting.

and Ah! Akreon! She truly is one of my heros in art, and just practical reasoning. She knows her stuff

Excellent topic, JC! And 100% legit, too. I've seen Akreon's critique guide before and it's certainly accurate. -nod-

Thanks for posting this! Hopefully some of the newbs/noobs will give this a read and let it soak for a bit...goodness knows some of 'em could use it.

Is there any way this can get stuck to the top of the forum? This shouldn't be missed by anyone.

That's what UKwhitewolf told me too...that she'd seen it before (as did Rainbowkat, who initially showed it to me). I guess akreon is quite the popular artist on there. She certainly is good, now that I've seen some of her other works!

Thanks! And you're welcome too.


That would be nice, huh? I may try to do it as an article too on BS, but it would be nice if someone could pin this topic. Because the problems noted in the drawing (and in what I said) occur on AS A LOT!

I think everything has been said already. This is a great topic and everyone on this website/forum should read it.

So we've had two confirmed requests by others to see this topic pinned to the top of the board, and I actually think that is a good idea (considering how often the stuff covered in this topic actually happens on Animation Source...and especially on Balto Source it seems). And everyone so far seems to feel that this is a topic everyone should see (for which I am grateful).


Can a moderator please go ahead and pin (sticky) this topic to the top of the board? Thanks!

I agree with this post too, but i also must say that even when critics don't need to be sugarcoated, also, they shouldn't be humiliating or bringing down, to my opinion this is a good critic

the one that marks mistakes and how to solve them
the one that praises the good points of the fanart
the one that persuades to keep on practicing and never give up

even though some of the critics are made, under my opinion good critics, are missunderstood, and i think it's because this site is for children, and there are more 10 year old than 25 year people on this place (i'm not saying there aren't i'm saying is rather a kids site) and they are most not mature enough to understand what a critic is and usually mistake it with a personal attack,even though it's not we must also understand, that's something we'll always have here, and if we want everyone to respect critics and take them as they are we should rather think about how to deal with children,how to show them that a critic is not a peronal attack, maybe showing some friendly advice, links to said mistake and how to solve it, show them how you would do it yourself,

well you know, show them you are helping them to improve

that's just my mere opinion

Jockris, that "this is a children's site" has been tossed around a LOT over the years, and the claim has been laid by many people, and discredited (and proven wrong) by many others. The fact is that this actually isn't a children's site. Not at all. While there are a small number of kids, aged 9-12 on this site, the vast majority of members actually span the age range of 14-22 (give or take a year). Then there are older ones as well. But most are people who may have been born in the 80s or 90s who saw the various Animation Source movies when they were kids at first...or young teens.


Now, that being said, a great NUMBER of people in the 14-22 age range act utterly like children. They whine, they overreact, they grasp for attention and popularity, and they are remarkably quick to misinterpret and take offense to the most ridiculous things. And they actively play at the drama and the friends/frenemies/BFFs/etc. thing just like so many people of the "Y generation" love to do. And that is the cause of about 98% of the drama on this site. NOT the statements of those who put forth opinions or criticisms (or critiques) on fan submissions. But rather the childish reactions TO those comments.


Often there have been people who HAVE tried to explain to others how they ought to try and interpret the comments of those who opine, criticize or critique their submissions. But you know what? None of us really has any obligation to be teachers, nor to walk around on proverbial "pins and needles" for fear of offending or angering someone just because we say something they MIGHT not like. That's not the problem of the person commenting (unless they are purposefully setting out to flame bait, troll or just be crude. And, as I have already said, almost all of the time, that is NOT the case). It's entirely the problem of the person who reacts to it...whether it's the person who's submission is being critiqued or criticized, OR the idiotic white knight who wants to be seen as some sort of ironic "hero" by holding forth the shield of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" (which is really nothing more than "look at me, aren't I special? Yeeeees, you can love and idolize me now. I'm a good guy! I take care of the downtrodden and the oppressed!")...