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I agree with EVERYTHING you had to say Keilidh! Every single word! I myself own two mutts. I don't bother to learn what their "designer dog" name is, because those are just scams to make people think its some kinda fancy dog. And I got both dogs from shelters/pounds.

Oh and Banshee, it is becoming a real dog breed. Mainly, because now, almost everytime a labrador and a poodle have puppies, the puppies usually always have the same traits. And in order for the dogs to qualify as a 'real' breed, they have to all have the same basic traits. And why shouldn't they become a real dog breed? EVERY single real breed there's ever been was originally just a mutt.

Sorry, but I had to interject with a correction. True, every breed there is currently started out as a mutt, however, all of those dogs were bred together primarily for a specific purpose/trait to do a job (i.e. not just for looks, like "designer dogs"). Even with this "guide dog" excuse, it is unlikely that a kennel club would accept them as a legitimate breed.

For instance: Australian Cattle Dogs (also commonly known as "Heelers" whether they be blue, red, or queensland) started out as Dingo-blue merle Collie crosses to provide a good working dog, especially for cattle ranchers. Later they were crossed with Dalmatians which, though it also changed the colors of the breed, was primarily to make the breed more faithful to the master and more friendly to horses. With that cross, some of the working ability was lost, so again they made a cross, this time with the Black and Tan Kelpie. Again, this necessary change also brought with it a change in appearance, as can be surmised. After that last cross, no other breeds were added to the mix, and Cattle Dogs were developed by keeping only the ideal dogs in physical type, soundness, and personality for the job at hand - herding cattle.

What does that have to do with anything? Well, for one, one of the points I'm trying to make is that labradoodles will not become a breed recognized by any respectable kennel club. Why? They have no purpose other than to be a pet and the single cross was not made by choice to better both of the breeds and get a better dog. This is where the guide dog excuse fails to legitimize them, in being that they were not originally created as such, and even more so because they are not any better at this task than the breeds that already steadily work in this area, such as Labs and Goldens. In addition, since Poodles come in various sizes, a miniature version of the labradoodle from a Miniature Poodle cross would not be well-suited for the task of guide dog. Of course, this isn't the only reason they will never become a kennel club recognized breed.

All breeds-to-be and those existing have to have a breed club and a set of breeders (typically well-known ones who have been working with the breed for years) who get together and decided definitively what the breed standard must call for in every dog to be considered a part of that breed. You can go and look up breed standards like this for every accepted breed and every breed on the waiting list to be accepted (these are called FSS breeds, or Foundation Stock Service breeds) on the AKC's website, or the Kennel Club's. In addition, all of this must have been done after there have been no more crosses and the breed is beginning to become uniform from being bred to only others from the same crosses.

In essence, this would mean doing the initial labradoodle cross, then only breeding offspring from that cross to other offspring of that cross (not necessarily from the same litter, as that would be inbreeding, and even when done carefully can be very dangerous!), then offspring of those labradoodle breedings to each other, and so on, increasing the generation number each time to increase uniformity. For one thing, since most labradoodle "breeders" are mostly just out to make money, I doubt they'd try to go through the trouble of all this. And for the other, no progress toward it has been made since a majority of labradoodle puppies are still Labrador Retriever x Poodle crosses. Few later generation breedings are done, and even when they are, it's just as easy to get something similar but still lacking the necessary uniformity of anything resembling a breed by making the initial breed cross again, which still leaves this designer dog lacking anything akin to a breed standard, since there's no guarantee what kind of Poodle/Lab (whether they be actual breeding/show quality or not) gets crossed. Remember, pet quality dogs typically don't fit their standards as well as show quality ones, and that can leave a lot of variation.

So to sum up, they will not become a real breed in all likelihood anytime soon, nor should they I believe. They have no original purpose, other than looks and to be pets, for which there are plenty of nice shelter dogs to also fill that role. I think it's safe to assume that no kennel club could ever seriously take a designer dog "breed's" request for legitimacy, nor do I believe they would want to.

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Aniu: Hm, you do have a point. But I've heard these dogs are trying to be bred to be hypoallergenic. And while no dog breed can truly come without risk of allergies, this one has a lot less because of the fur of the poodle and the temperment of the lab. I'm not sure of the specifics.

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I agree. Poodle's are fantastic family pets. My friend owns one called Monty and he has the most gorgeous temperament I've seen in a dog in ages < 3 He's also very intelligent.

Personally, I think they are crossing poodle with Golden Retrievers and Labradors because of the horrible stereotype on Poodles (of all sizes) ,that they 'snobbish' and 'posh' etc, etc.



I also agree with this point, but techinically, aren't all purebreds 'mutts' in some sense? For examlple, the Lurcher is a sighthound mixed with usually a working/pastoral breed or a terrier.

I agree whole-heartedly.

Unfortunately, in the US (not sure about Europe), the animal shelters and rescues charge just as much, if not more, for a dog or puppy as a puppy-mill or BYB charges. The only difference, BYBs don't require a background check/home visit.

My opinion is, if the shelters and rescues didn't charge so much to save a life, maybe people wouldn't turn to BYBs who, in many cases, often offer pups for free.

I cruise craigslist all the time and I'm always seeing either BYB ads, rescue ads or shelter ads offering dogs that need homes. But when the shelter/rescue charges $250 for an 'adoption' fee and the BYB charges $100, most people will go for the cheaper dog...and many times it just winds up in the shelter anyway.

It's a sad, disgusting truth.

That's extremely strange. Every dog/puppy store I've been to charges at least $800 for a puppy. And the 'adoption fee' is to keep the shelter/pounds going. Nearly all shelters are non-profit; if it weren't for the adoption fees, they wouldn't even be able to hold the dogs. They barely scrape by with the adoption fees.

A puppy mill isn't the same thing as a puppy-store (I've never heard of a puppy-store).

If you want to see a huge range of adoption fees, check out craigslist.

I'm not sure about other places in the world or even the US, but here in Oregon, the prices range from free-$800 for a BYB/puppy-mill.

Mostly in the $50-$400 price range, though. LOTS are even free.

The animal shelters and rescues [in my state] can charge anywhere between $150-$250 (for shelters) and $150-$400 for specific-breed rescues (there was a malamute rescue out here who wouldn't re-home their rescued purebred malamutes for any less then $400). BYBs charge between $50-to as high as $800 for designer and even purebred pups. Some, however, give them away for free (usually chihuahua mixes are found on craigslist for free, or at most $25).

I'm not saying animal shelters shouldn't charge a fee. I'm just saying that a lot of backyard breeders and puppy mills charge much less (at least in my area) then the shelters/rescues. And lots of people would rather spend $50 for a pup from a backyard breeder then $250 for an older dog in a shelter.

Again, these are just the prices in Oregon (and some in Washington). Every state/city/country is different.

I have hardly heard of people going on cragislist to buy a dog, though. I'm sure people do it, but it just seems strange to me. Specialty shelters costing more would make sense to me. After all, depending on which breed they specialize in, not everyone wants a dog of that certain breed. They probably have to keep certain dogs longer because they aren't getting adopted (thus they need more money for unkeep, etc.). My point is that puppy-mills and stores where you buy dogs or breeders sell dogs for profit only. Granted, a few shelters/pounds may be going for profit as well, but most of the expenses go towards upkeep of the actual location, not profit.

Well, they do in Oregon. More people buy dogs off of Oregon craigslist then anything else. I know because both my mom and I cruise craigslist every single day, and most of the ads are for dogs/puppies for sale (hardly anyone in Oregon follows that 'no dog/puppy sales' rule on craigslist).

The American Kennel Club does not consider a Cocker Poo or a Shih Poo a purebred. True breeders know that if you take a German Shepherd Dog and a Collie, it doesn't make a German Collie or a Sheplie, it makes a mutt or a bitzer. Sometimes I think that the mutts can be cuter than both purebred parents. My grandmother has a Shih Tzu/Poodle mix or a Shih Poo. I think he's cuter than both the Poodle and the Shih Tzu. To be honest with you, I prefer purebred dogs. They're prettier. Regardless of whether you get a purebred or a crossbred dog, adopt responsibly. Dogs, regardless of breed are not for everyone.