Animation Source Forums

Hello, Rant Board!

I have never, ever used this section of the site before and decided it's about time I tried it out. I thought I should talk about something I am familar with, which is Roleplaying. It just so happens that I have a lot to say on this subject, so I will probably be posting more rants everytime I encounter something else that rubs me the wrong way but they will all be on this topic.

The Animation Source roleplay sections have changed a lot since I first joined almost five years ago. Back then, I would be involved in five or six roleplays at a time, posting in each of them multiple times each day, something I can't manage anymore unfortunately. Then again, now that I think about it, I was one of those pesky one-liner posters in my early days. Even so, I wish I could go back to those days. Whether its the community or just me, something has changed about the roleplaying sections, and I am now annoyed each time I browse through the topics.

Whatever happened to the good old fashion canine roleplays? I remember taking over the roleplay forums with my friends and spending hours writing about a group of dogs struggling to survive in the streets, a city dog lost in the country, an escape from the dog fighting rings, or even a show dog murder mystery. The main point, where did the creativity go? I'm sorry if I offend, but I am sick and tired of all the rival wolf packs fighting for no reason, the sled dogs lost in a storm just because, and the wolf packs surviving a bad time caused by bad luck. All in all, I would love for someone to come up with an original idea every once in a while.

As for the Balto Roleplaying section... where did it go? I check there about once a week, and nothing over there ever changes. I would love to post a Balto story, but no once would join. And if they did, the likelihood that it would be someone who can keep a canon charaters's personality the same as it is in the movie is very unlikely. Okay, maybe that was a little harsh, but it's true.

When I first got into roleplaying, things were different. There were no topics focused on anything other than dogs. Everything changed about a year or two ago. Everything turned towards the supernatural. There was a time when half the topics on the first page of the Open Roleplaying section was centered around werewolves. Now, I'm not one to complain about this since I enjoyed this era of roleplaying very much, but it seems to have turned into this new age of roleplaying that I can't exactly give a specific name.

To be frank, the plots stink nowadays. Most do not have a point or a direction. Someone just gives a simple situation and says run with it. The problem is people aren't creative enough to just go with a simple story and make it interesting. No wonder roleplays hardly go to the end since there is no end point most of the time.

Then there are the characters. We are slowly being taken over by Mary Sues. C'mon people! Give your characters some depth! And that does not been anger management problems or a messed up pasts. It means that your character has to have flaws! You know, things that aren't good. Something that will make other characters dislike them. Remember, it is okay to have other characters not adore your character.

I find the biggest problem with roleplaying is that characters no longer interact. One goes off and does something while another does something else. The most annoying thing for me is when someone has their character interacting with my characters, but runs off to do something else before I respond. Does interaction take patience? Yes! Duh! You can't post every five minutes if the other roleplayers are not.

I promise to be brief with this touchy topic: style. The writing style for roleplays since I've joined as always been third person, past tense. I am not against using first person or present tense, but it gets confusing when every roleplay uses a different style of writing.

Another thing. What is with people posting their characters name above each paragraph? Is it too much effort to change this:

Johnny
He ran down the street.

into this:?

Johnny ran down the street.

Okay, this ran got really long really fast. I'm gonna bring this to a close before I write a novel.

Every single point you've made here brings it home, Rose. I've been seriously annoyed by this, too. At first, I too was a one/two liner, but after a few role-plays, that quickly changed. Now I can't go posting less than a paragraph for fear it's too short. I understand what you mean about the plots. I rarely ever join role-plays nowadays because I'm getting sick of the repetitive plots. I happen to be a huge fan of the supernatural, and considering that I usually only read books having to do with fiction, it would make sense that the role-plays I take part in are close to that genre.

The Balto role-plays are a sad thing as well. It'd be nice, as you said, to see some Balto role-plays that not only hold true to the characters, but ones that also have a nice plot. I'm a bit sick of the 'return of Steele' or 'Kodi needs help' or whatever may be the case. It's come to a point where I don't bother looking in the Balto section anymore because I've completely lost hope or interest.

That thing about characters not interacting drives me insane. When I have my character talking to yours, I expect yours to talk to mine back and allow for a response, not run off somewhere and leave mine hanging. I agree with the mary-sue thing as well. I know that both you, me, and a few others on the Roleplay section spend countless minutes and sometimes even hours trying to conjure up a realistic character. I hate having a character who has no faults. In fact, some times I tend to give my characters more faults than assets. Half because it adds to the plot and the other half pertaining to the fact that not everyone is a genuine hero. Everyone in real life has something to offer and something that could bring them and those they know down. It's not plausible for a character to have no faults.

What especially annoys me is when someone has their character fighting with another and their character somehow manages to lay a thousand hits on the other and they end up unharmed in the end. By magic. That's not what would happen in real life. Unless, for example, it was an infant versus a teenager. Then, I'd understand. But, seriously?

First person does tend to urk me, especially considering the fact that the general style is third person. It would be nice if some people could take into account that others will become confused, and if nothing else, there's always thoughts. First person, in my case, is never used unless the character is thinking. If someone really wants to use first person, they could make a 'thoughtful' character. It's as simple as that. That name thing above that you mentioned annoys me as well. Things like...

Johnny: He ran down the street.
Rick: He ran after Johnny.

Annoy me like there's no tomorrow. Needless to say, all the points you have made are incredibly valid. It seems to me that the only role-plays who go up to page 100 are the ones were people post one sentence for every single post. It's sad what it's gotten to, really. Especially considering that nearly two thirds of the ones who post one-liners are far from newbies anymore.

Yes. Just...yes. That goes for both Rose and Moki. The standard of roleplays has dropped so rapidly. Newer people (if only I could name names...oh, if only) are changing the ways roleplays work. Different sites may do things differently, but we used to, here on AS, put actual detail into our posts, and NOT write it like a crappy script for a crappy play. It irritates me to no end. The people who do this are even teaching the newbies (though not on purpose, I don't think) how to roleplay. The problem is, they're teaching incorrectly. Eventually, all standard is going to disappear in the roleplay forums. It's already beginning to happen. Posts are more like things you would see in a shoutbox rather than what should be in a decent roleplay.

Argh! I could rant for hours, but let me move onto a different topic other than crappy one-liners. One line is one problem, but writing that one line really badly AND incorrectly is another. (Ah, if only we could ban people from the roleplay section...still not naming names though)

My next topic/victim; plot-lines. Wow, where did the creativity go? Some are creative; excellent, even. But some....wow. Just...wow. They're either one line, or they make no sense (meaning it's disorganized, it's not clearly explained, or it's just plain bad) I mean, clìche much? Seriously people, put effort into this! Don't create roleplays just so you can make characters and half-formed (and those are the GOOD ones) plots! Think about, put effort into it! You don't think novels happened by magic, do you? It takes planning, it takes effort. Otherwise the novels are basically a fail. A big, fat fail.

Granted, roleplays are not novels, but I think you get the book. A good roleplay is made by the quality it has, and the effort put into it, not how many crappy ideas you came up with before, that basically just clutter the front page, using up valuable space. Anyway, moving on to another topic; Mary Sue's.

No. Just...no. Mary Sue's, in case you don't know, are perfect characters, who, in my opinion, often come across as obnoxious, immature, clìche, and just...undeveloped. NO ONE IS PERFECT!!! Accept that fact, move on, and give your character some depth. And no, they can't all have emotional, moving backgrounds either. Face it; some people can actually live normal lives, and still be interesting. Not everyone has to be depressed or emotionally scarred.

Yes, I give some of my characters depressing pasts, but only when I think it adds needed texture to the character and the roleplay. For example, in "the Legend of Kyathro", I have a character called Kasha. She has a bit of sadness and confliction to both her (and explains some of her personality and actions) and the roleplay. In fact, its actually going to result in a conflict fairly soon down the road. See? It actually helped the roleplay, rather than just making a clìched character that could've easily had a normal past, and still have been interesting. I used it as a crucial part of Kasha's development, and a later conflict, rather than having it be a result of boredom and a lack of muse.

Does every one of my characters have this? No. In fact, I can take an example from the same roleplay. My other character, Maiya, had a fairly normal past (I'm fairly certain) that didn't change her personality much. It wasn't depressing, or horrifying. It was normal. She's optimistic, cheerful, and eager to please. She contrasts Kasha and is interesting, without having a sob story of a past. And both of them have flaws.

Kasha is a bit too aggressive and impulsive, and has a hard time trusting people. Maiya is too trusting, and would most likely befriend someone that would betray her, without seeing the danger. She also tends to crumple when faced with arguements within the group, and isn't the best under stress.

See? Not Mary Sue's, and only one of them has a slightly depressing twist in her past. Yet they're still interesting, and fun to roleplay with.

Well, I think I got the worst of it out for now. Though thanks to some "roleplays", I'll probably be posting again...

Oh, and nice alliteration in the title, by the way.

You both brought up wonderful points. I agree with absolutely everything you two have said.

I am actually really upset that these roleplayers are teaching the new members these horrible habits. I really want to do something about this, but I honestly don't know what else to do. I have thought of confronting the roleplayers (I think we all know who I am talking about although we cannot name names), but it probably won't do anything except get members mad at me. I've also tried to help by posting on their roleplays and pointing out what their could do better, but I just get ignored. It's beyond annoying!

Moki, I am so glad you know what a mean by the interactions, or lack of, in roleplays. I have actually dismissed people from my roleplays for wondering off and not staying with the story by distancing themselves from the other characters. I espcailly hate it when one person's character goes off on their own little adventure while everyone else stays with the plot and works through the story together. And than that player will get upset that the others are ignoring their posts! Well, isn't it obvious?

I am also glad you brought up how some characters are never harmed in a fight. I remember killing off a character in a fight because that made it more realistic! I actually had no plan to kill off this character, but I gave the okay to kill him because there was no way for him to survive this particular fight. Now, I'm not saying it should go that far, but you should never have your character fight and come out fine even if they have the advantage. They should at least of a sore arm from hitting the other character so many times.

Windancer, I think you bring up an excellant point about characters. It is so true that normal characters can be interesting, but some people need to learn that characters have to have a personality in order to be interesting. Has anyone else noticed the personality section of the biography is disappearing?

I wish that these roleplayers would learn that just because a plot takes up a paragraph does not mean it is good. If you have a plot that makes no sense and you aren't explaining the conflict well enough, people aren't going to join because they are so confused! And even if you manage to start this roleplay, it's never going to go very far because no one has any idea what is going on.

Another thing that just remembered that is my biggest pet peeve is starting a roleplay without waiting for others to join! I have browsed through and noticed that some roleplays start after just one person joins. That is called a private roleplay and does not belong in the open roleplay section. I really loose my temper when someone joins my roleplays and starts before I give permission. This is my rolepaly and I will start it! Ugh!

Anyways, thanks for noticing the alliteration, dancer! I worked really hard to make a good title.

You are each correct, of course. The problem is that NONE of those bad role-players are going to care one whit about what you each said, or pay any attention to it. There won't be any changes unless steps are proactively taken to change things for the better. Things will chug onward just as they have been for some time now.

Or, at best, you may get the following kinds of reactions from a few of them if they see this rant (probably with accompanying bad spelling and grammar, and SMS...each of which I shall not replicate here):

"Hey man, it's the internet...nobody cares"

"Jeez. I just learned how to do this. Give me a break. Don't be so mean! Boo hoo hooo!"

"(The expected expletive) you dude, I'll do what I want. You're not a moderator."

Etc. etc. etc...ad nauseum.

I stopped role-playing a looooooooong time ago for the very same reasons you guys listed (or at least many of them...and probably some similar ones). This behavior isn't new at all. It's simply increasing.

I completely agree. There have also been those select few members who you would groan with disappointment everytime they joined or created a roleplay. But now, the entire general open roleplay section has been taken over by these types of members. And the worst part is, like you have stated, they don't care when we try to correct them. They don't understand we are simply trying to help.

Despite this, I think I am going to try harder than I have to steer them in the right direction. Not sure how, but I'll probably start with PMing some of these members, especailly the new ones who aren't as rooted into roleplaying "their way." I might also try to get them to read this topic, or at least draw their attention to it. Perhaps I'll even try correcting individual rolepalys even though I found myself ignored when I tried that before. I also encourage other members to do this too.

Maybe if we work hard enough, we can change the way of rolepalying here on AS.

Well, back about a year or two ago, a great topic was created on this forum which detailed the methodology and so forth of GOOD role-playing. I forgot where it was posted, and who created it (might have been CatWhoHas14Tails...maybe someone else). And it appears, after a cursory search of the "Suggestions" board and the various role-playing boards, that it was not stickied (pinned) at any time, unfortunately (even though it was certainly worth doing so). And yet, in spite of an active discussion in that topic, it didn't have much long-term effect. Nothing ever does. It's like spitting into the proverbial wind...you're fighting a losing battle.

The only way to guarantee a good role-play is to have a closed one for advanced role-players (as has occasionally occurred here), in order to keep out the inexperienced and, worse, the indifferent riff-raff. It may seem a cold and imperfect solution, but I think it's the only one which guarantees minimal frustrations in the role-plays any particular member wants to participate in. That way, if someone enters who proves incapable of meeting the standards of that particular role play, then individual experienced members can take the steps you just referred to. Even if closed role-plays tend to add to the volume of material on the forum and perhaps complicate things generally-speaking.

There are also three guides in the all the roleplay sections that obviously try to show how to rolepaly correctly. They are written by Aniu Caelestis, Rusty the Fox, and MayaHuskee. They were all individual topics before, so perhaps one of them is the guide you are talking about.

Anyways, what I don't understand is how these roleplayers don't read these. They are there for a reason, and I go back and reread them every few months or so to brush up on my roleplaying even though I've been doing it for over four years! I try to refer them to new members, but I think they are to lazy to actually read any of it even though it majorly helps.

It is true that advanced roleplays really are the only solution, but it is difficult, for at least, to restict a roleplay. I like helping inexperienced members and meeting new people through rolepalying, but I also have a hard time not accepting people or dismissing them from a roleplay. But I have been forced to do so lately, which really upsets me. I know there really isn't anything to do except try to point out their wrongs, but I really wish that we could go back to decent roleplaying.

It would probably have been Maya's then. I think I recall that now. Though Aniu would have written a good one too. I don't know if I have seen Rusty's, so I cannot speak to its quality. I know Rusty is a good role-player though.


For the same reason such people don't read rants directed at them (certainly without naming them) and people like them. They don't pay attention, or they come back with the same old, tired b.s.: "tl/dr". Which speaks to the same problem which usually results in bad role-playing: flat-out laziness.


Then perhaps some dedicated experienced role-player, who has the time on his or her hands, can start a running "tutorial" in real time, or in forum posting time, to teach folks. Or make a YouTube video series or something. What do you think, Black Rose?

That would be really cool! And much more informative than just a guide or reading a "role model" roleplay. I would definately take the time to do a project like that if we can. Maybe not a youtube video since that would be hard for people with dial-up computers. Believe me, I know. I used to be one of those unfortunate people.

I think a tutorial roleplay would be really helpful. That way we can demonstrate the tips that we always give out and point out what makes a roleplay good and what makes it bad.

That is a wonderful idea! I would gladly participate!

Glad I could help.

Would you like to help in this tutorial roleplay?

I could try. But I don't know how actively I could do so. I think the first thing you'd need to do is to set up a very small group of tutors, and prepare an action plan before you start said running tutorial. Perhaps an off-site chat...either WLM or Skype works best for me. But one each of your tutors can participate in.

I am working on getting a group together. I have sent a message to ten possible members that I think are the top roleplayers, and asked if they would like to participate. After that, I will work on a how to chat with all of them.

Sounds good to me. If you want me in, I'm in. And will do what I can to help.