wolf/dog hybrid......they're totally awsome!

Serra20 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:40 pm

I only read these two latest posts now (well, I've read the first posts too, but I am not aware of this kind of argument that's going on here), and I am sorry for getting off topic a bit, but I feel like throwing my two cents in.

I don't know how it was with you in this situation, MW Roach, but surely wasn't whether the dog liked you or not, they just weren't socialized. But, I believe there are people that dogs just don't like. For example, there's one old man who lives in my neighborhood. Whenever he walks by, ALL the dogs bark at him. For no reason. Whenever we hear all the dogs bark loud and fiercely out of sudden, we know the man's walking by.

To this day I don't know why they bark at him. As far as I know, he hasn't done anything bad. Maybe it really has something to do with the dogs' preference.

Back to wolfdogs...They would surely make for a wonderful pets, I do believe that, only if you treat them well, train them, and pay much attention to them.

MW Roach · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:20 pm

Oh I agree. There's some dogs that, no matter how well socialized they are, just don't like certain people.

My wolfdogs are very well socialized and are very friendly to darn-near everyone.

But there's always one person that just rubs my wolfies the wrong way, and when they see certain people, they don't go rushing up to them tails wagging like with most others, but rather, they hide. There's a cattle-rancher who often visits us to trim my horses' hooves, and my wolfies can sense that he's not exactly a fan of them. So when he visits, they hide from him. Especially my female, Sitka. She's very afraid of that man. Makes me wonder just how many wolves he's killed in his day....

We used to live in a very populated area, and my wolfdogs loved seeing all different people and kids.

But there was this one guy (admittedly, one I had a crush on), that my big male, Tsume did NOT like at ALL.

My only guess is that Tsume knew how I felt about the guy, didn't quite agree with my thoughts, and figured he'd better protect me from that male non-pack member. He'd rush the kennel and growl at the guy whenever he was near, and I was outside. When I was inside, Tsume would just lay there and growl at the guy. But when I was outside, he made it his duty to not let me and that guy get anywhere near each other XD

My black wolfy, Phantom likes everyone that I like. But when a certain lady comes over that I'm not particularly fond of, he hides in his kennel. He just happens to feed off of my vibes.

So yes, there's always that one person who, for some reason, causes dogs to feel insecure. Lots of animals can sense things about people. Things that we can't sense.

In my dog-attack cases, it was just a bad owner who improperly raised their pet.

BaltoSeppala · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:57 am

I'd like to quote from the book The Cruelest Miles: The Heroic Story of Dogs and Men in a Race Against an Epidemic, by Gay and Laney Salisbury...considered one of the best books about the serum run history. And this post is intended to answer some earlier postings on either side of this on-going and often charged debate in here.

This is from a footnote, pp. 141-143 (which reinforces the following statement on pg. 141: "[Wild Bill] Shannon once boasted that Blackie was the grandson of a timber wolf, which suggested a romantic combination of the wild and the tamed, with both elements working in perfect alliance. Jack London himself described such a breed, but the very notion was impractical. Wolves hunted, they did not pull. A few miners may once have succeeded in breeding a sled dog to a wolf in an attempt to produce an heir with tougher pads, more speed, and a keener sense of trail. But the wolf-dog crosses would not have been much use. Although there may have been a team or two in Alaska composed of wolf dogs, most experts agree that such hybrids were a myth. Wolf dogs tend to be intractable, aggressive, and territorial, and would have posed a danger in a team."):

"The aggressiveness in wolf dogs does not necessarily come from the wolf heritage. In his book The Company of Wolves (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1995), Peter Steinhart writes that wolves tend to back off from fights and retreat from danger. Wolves will rarely bite a pack member. A pack would not survive constant aggression and therefore conflicts are usually resolved before they reach that stage.

"The myth of wolf dog sled teams continued into the 1900s in Alaska and was perhaps perpetuated by breeders and drivers trying to sell their sled dogs for top prices, particularly to beginners in awe of the idea. Wolves, however, are not stronger than sled dogs, nor do they have greater endurance. The biologist and sled dog enthusiast Raymond Coppinger writes in Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution (New York & London: Scribner, 2001) that breeding a sled dog to a wolf 'would be at least an evolutionary digression, if not a degradation in the behaviors of both. Wolves have not been selected to be sled dogs.' Contrary to popular myth, a sled dog team does not run like a pack of wolves. 'A pack,' writes Coppinger, 'is about chasing something. Sled dogs are running because other dogs are running.' It is the sole motivation. 'There is a rhythm to their run and they can hear that rhythm and they run to it,' Coppinger adds. 'When you stand on the back of a sled, you can feel it. It is powerful.'

"Coppinger discusses one zoologist and wolf expert who as an experiment tried to train hand-raised, nearly one-year-old wolves to pull a sled. Despite months of training, the wolves would not fully accept being harnessed together in such close quarters. They became territorial and when they got tired they simply lay down. They refused to take directional commands. And finally, when a robin landed among the wolves while at rest, they began to climb over each other, entangled their chains, and fought. The experiment was a failure. The zoologist ended up pulling the sled home. Basically, wolves are not suited to run on a team. being independent-minded, they ran at their own gait and were more concerned about defending their personal space than moving forward. These traits would compromise the effectiveness of the team and the safety of the driver."

I think there are a few key concepts in the quotation above. To wit:

Wolf dog hybrids tend to inherit the worst traits, generally-speaking, of both wolves and dogs. The ingrained, instinctual behavior among wolves to constantly test the social pecking order and to maintain certain territorial independence...coupled with a very high prey drive (as well as occasional skittishness in unfamiliar situations); and of dogs, the occasional appearance of aggressive and skittish behaviors, and sometimes fear-aggression. From what I have heard and read, wolf dog hybrids often show those qualities...and when I have seen wolf dog breeders and enthusiasts attend community dog events, they tend to keep the wolf dogs caged and away not only from dogs, but their owners as well (and I'm not talking dog crates...I'm talking portable chain-link fence enclosures with thick bars as support structuring). The breeders and enthusiasts warn the curious and empathetic observers not to get too close, especially if they have a dog on leash...even though, on their own and under control of the owner, they "are sweet, gentle animals". Contradiction much? I find that very telling (and these are breeders who would swear up and down, just like so many pit bull breeders, that they are reputable, reliable and care a great deal, using humane and honorable breeding and care methods). Granted, I HAVE witnessed one or two exceptions. Even a YOUNG wolf dog in a group play situation with several medium to large dogs in which he was reserved but peaceable and occasionally playful. But he was an isolated case. Most of what I have seen would tend to support what is quoted above.
It's not wolves themselves that are the problem. Nor dogs. It's the combining of the two which often (though perhaps not always) creates problems. And wolf dog breeders and enthusiasts are usually incapable of acknowledging that fact. There is always only a sunny side and, to them, the "horrid prejudices and misunderstandings" of the public and the press (again...sounds JUST like pit bull breeders and enthusiasts).
Balto movie fans, most especially the wolfaboos and wolf dog enthusiasts among them, would certainly find the information quoted above to be upsetting, and perhaps unbelievable...even though it is supported by expert references. But then, fans are not exactly known for their ability to see things from a detached, rational point of view.

DISCLAIMER: My intent was not to attack wolf dog enthusiasts or breeders, nor engage in argumentative debate. I simply posted an opinion and some evidence. Don't castigate me simply because you may not happen to LIKE it.

MW Roach · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:07 pm

JerseyCaptain wrote:

I'd like to quote from the book The Cruelest Miles: The Heroic Story of Dogs and Men in a Race Against an Epidemic, by Gay and Laney Salisbury...considered one of the best books about the serum run history. And this post is intended to answer some earlier postings on either side of this on-going and often charged debate in here.

This is from a footnote, pp. 141-143 (which reinforces the following statement on pg. 141: "[Wild Bill] Shannon once boasted that Blackie was the grandson of a timber wolf, which suggested a romantic combination of the wild and the tamed, with both elements working in perfect alliance. Jack London himself described such a breed, but the very notion was impractical. Wolves hunted, they did not pull. A few miners may once have succeeded in breeding a sled dog to a wolf in an attempt to produce an heir with tougher pads, more speed, and a keener sense of trail. But the wolf-dog crosses would not have been much use. Although there may have been a team or two in Alaska composed of wolf dogs, most experts agree that such hybrids were a myth. Wolf dogs tend to be intractable, aggressive, and territorial, and would have posed a danger in a team."):

"The aggressiveness in wolf dogs does not necessarily come from the wolf heritage. In his book The Company of Wolves (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1995), Peter Steinhart writes that wolves tend to back off from fights and retreat from danger. Wolves will rarely bite a pack member. A pack would not survive constant aggression and therefore conflicts are usually resolved before they reach that stage.

"The myth of wolf dog sled teams continued into the 1900s in Alaska and was perhaps perpetuated by breeders and drivers trying to sell their sled dogs for top prices, particularly to beginners in awe of the idea. Wolves, however, are not stronger than sled dogs, nor do they have greater endurance. The biologist and sled dog enthusiast Raymond Coppinger writes in Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution (New York & London: Scribner, 2001) that breeding a sled dog to a wolf 'would be at least an evolutionary digression, if not a degradation in the behaviors of both. Wolves have not been selected to be sled dogs.' Contrary to popular myth, a sled dog team does not run like a pack of wolves. 'A pack,' writes Coppinger, 'is about chasing something. Sled dogs are running because other dogs are running.' It is the sole motivation. 'There is a rhythm to their run and they can hear that rhythm and they run to it,' Coppinger adds. 'When you stand on the back of a sled, you can feel it. It is powerful.'

"Coppinger discusses one zoologist and wolf expert who as an experiment tried to train hand-raised, nearly one-year-old wolves to pull a sled. Despite months of training, the wolves would not fully accept being harnessed together in such close quarters. They became territorial and when they got tired they simply lay down. They refused to take directional commands. And finally, when a robin landed among the wolves while at rest, they began to climb over each other, entangled their chains, and fought. The experiment was a failure. The zoologist ended up pulling the sled home. Basically, wolves are not suited to run on a team. being independent-minded, they ran at their own gait and were more concerned about defending their personal space than moving forward. These traits would compromise the effectiveness of the team and the safety of the driver."

That's very interesting. I wouldn't think that pure wolves could ever make a good sled dog. But wolfdogs? Yes. Yes they can.

Please enjoy this article from a 2010 issue of Wolfdogs Magazine:

You can full-view them here:
Mushing Wolfdogs: pg1

Mushing Wolfdogs pg2

Mushing Wolfdogs pg3

Quote:

I think there are a few key concepts in the quotation above. To wit:

Wolf dog hybrids tend to inherit the worst traits, generally-speaking, of both wolves and dogs. The ingrained, instinctual behavior among wolves to constantly test the social pecking order and to maintain certain territorial independence...coupled with a very high prey drive (as well as occasional skittishness in unfamiliar situations); and of dogs, the occasional appearance of aggressive and skittish behaviors, and sometimes fear-aggression. From what I have heard and read, wolf dog hybrids often show those qualities...and when I have seen wolf dog breeders and enthusiasts attend community dog events, they tend to keep the wolf dogs caged and away not only from dogs, but their owners as well (and I'm not talking dog crates...I'm talking portable chain-link fence enclosures with thick bars as support structuring). The breeders and enthusiasts warn the curious and empathetic observers not to get too close, especially if they have a dog on leash...even though, on their own and under control of the owner, they "are sweet, gentle animals". Contradiction much? I find that very telling (and these are breeders who would swear up and down, just like so many pit bull breeders, that they are reputable, reliable and care a great deal, using humane and honorable breeding and care methods). Granted, I HAVE witnessed one or two exceptions. Even a YOUNG wolf dog in a group play situation with several medium to large dogs in which he was reserved but peaceable and occasionally playful. But he was an isolated case. Most of what I have seen would tend to support what is quoted above.

What content was the 'caged' wolfdog? What content was the puppy? Highs, mids, lows? Content matters.

I have many articles (with photos) of wolfdogs in group situations, if anyone is interested. It was all a matter of socializing the pups with others during obedience classes, and being consistent with training and socializing.

Quote:

It's not wolves themselves that are the problem. Nor dogs. It's the combining of the two which often (though perhaps not always) creates problems. And wolf dog breeders and enthusiasts are usually incapable of acknowledging that fact. There is always only a sunny side and, to them, the "horrid prejudices and misunderstandings" of the public and the press (again...sounds JUST like pit bull breeders and enthusiasts).

Once again, we seem to be running into one of two issues

1) Incorrectly classifying all wolfdogs of all contents as a whole
2) Incorrectly assuming that all wolfdogs are a cross between a domestic dog and a wild wolf.

VERY few wolfdogs nowadays have any recent wild wolf in their bloodlines. VERY few. I have an article about that, too.

And, unfortunately, the same prejudice can be found among those 'anti-certain-breed' enthusiasts. No matter how many positive things are known about a certain breed, those who dislike them will ultimately side with all the negatives.

Quote:

Balto movie fans, most especially the wolfaboos and wolf dog enthusiasts among them, would certainly find the information quoted above to be upsetting, and perhaps unbelievable...even though it is supported by expert references. But then, fans are not exactly known for their ability to see things from a detached, rational point of view.

DISCLAIMER: My intent was not to attack wolf dog enthusiasts or breeders, nor engage in argumentative debate. I simply posted an opinion and some evidence. Don't castigate me simply because you may not happen to LIKE it.

I'm a wolfdog enthusiast...and as such I really hate being classified in the same category as wolfaboos. It really gives educated people a bad name to be associated with wolfaboos.

As I have said, I have countless articles and evidence that supports the positives of wolfdogs, and they often conflict with the negatives.

Those who have a burning hatred for something also seems to have trouble seeing things from a rational point of view.

I have an opinion and evidence as well. Lots of both, actually. And I'll be glad to share with you as many articles as you'd like.

Enjoy the Mushing Wolfdogs article.

Ecliptica · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:32 pm

I have one^^ Shes all black and mostly timber wolf, and I disagree with people who advise agenced it, they just don't know how to handle them, yes they take alot more time and effort then any other, but if successful you will never have a better canine partner and friend, there alot stronger then other dogs, alot smarter and way better senses to, no one dares to break in my place, once was all it took and it never happened again,

If you truely want to test yourself and see what your truely capable of regarding canines, then a wolfdog is your ultimate test, no dog can protect you better, and if something happened where someone elses dog attacks you due to a crappy owner you wont have to worry about jumping in to protect your dog, for your dog wont be the one in trouble, I know from experience, iv had others dogs attack me before either by order or just a bad owner and she always protected me and my 2 year old nephew and they may start the fight, she ends it fast, or other dogs cower and don't try to start

Ecliptica · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Anything, avoiding conflict at all, there was this one I was with my nephew 2 years old and the gate we passed by had a vicious ex cop german shepherd massive that hated everything, jumped over its smal gate and knocked my nephew on the ground, standing over him snarling, and before I could do anything out of no where mine came from my home and just before the german shepherd bit my nephew mine rammed him so hard the dog went threw the wood gate.

I grabbed my nephew and she went in the gate to make sure he didn't get back up with just enough time to get my nephew far enough away, and five minutes later is was done, she didn't kill him, but did alot of damage and I wound up knocking the owner out shortly after.

She picked up danger right after we left to go to the park, her and my nephew are so cute together^^ Plus shes also my pillow cuz she has the strongest and most beautiful heartbeat and she knows I love it so any time im down she either brings my stethoscope to me or nudges me and lays on her side.

MW Roach · **Posted:** Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:10 pm

Ecliptica wrote:

I have one^^ Shes all black and mostly timber wolf, and I disagree with people who advise agenced it, they just don't know how to handle them, yes they take alot more time and effort then any other, but if successful you will never have a better canine partner and friend, there alot stronger then other dogs, alot smarter and way better senses to, no one dares to break in my place, once was all it took and it never happened again,

If you truely want to test yourself and see what your truely capable of regarding canines, then a wolfdog is your ultimate test, no dog can protect you better, and if something happened where someone elses dog attacks you due to a crappy owner you wont have to worry about jumping in to protect your dog, for your dog wont be the one in trouble, I know from experience, iv had others dogs attack me before either by order or just a bad owner and she always protected me and my 2 year old nephew and they may start the fight, she ends it fast, or other dogs cower and don't try to start

Aren't they wonderful? I'm sorry, I'm just thrilled when someone understands XD I guess you have to own a wolfdog to "get it" lol

Your girl sounds wonderful, and good for her to rescue you and your nephew in case of danger!

I love my wolfdogs dearly and I wouldn't trade them for anything. It breaks my heart to see so much ignorance and hate for an animal who doesn't deserve such negativity.

Fast As A Shark · **Posted:** Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:37 am

Not too long ago, I came across this interesting story related to this topic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/2 ... b=facebook
The clip can be found by itself on YouTube, too.
Dog Tears: Heartbreaking Video Shows Wolf-Dog Wiley Sobbing At Grave Of Owner's Grandma

Animation Source Forums

wolf/dog hybrid......they're totally awsome!

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